We all know the devastating impact of a divorce on a family. But what about the business and financial impact as well? We have Minni Sharma, a trained psychotherapist, to discuss the importance of working through issues and how to do that!
so welcome back to another episode, my name is and I'm super excited here because we have many Sharma who is a registered psychotherapist? I know for those of you out there that are thinking psychotherapist, what the heck you know, do people need therapy out there? I'm gonna say Yeah, absolutely. Um because all of us are dealing with something in our lives, all of us can do better in terms of communicating and having better relationships, especially when it comes to business right, A core aspect of having a successful business is having successful relationships. So that's why we have many here today, talking to us about that. Welcome many. I appreciate you being on the show. Thanks pretty, thank you for having me, I'm excited to talk about this topic because I'm very passionate about it and relationships are so important in family dynamics, especially when you're trying to you know, create a successful business or maintain a successful business. It all comes down to communication, healing wound, you know, um conflict, how you manage conflict in in a family. So yeah, it's a great topic and I think uh I hope people get value from, from what we talked about today. Yeah, I think they're gonna get a ton of value many because before we went live here, one of the things I talked about was okay, do we put it on both episodes or both podcasts? We have the business brothers podcast for family business and then complete man podcast for business leaders ceos and entrepreneurs um mainly men on both, but I think you're gonna be able to drive so much value for us that it's gonna be on both podcasts. So when it comes to relationships, how did you get into the space? Maybe you can talk about your journey, your story. How did you get into the area of helping other people have better relationships? Well um personally I went through a very high conflict divorce for many years. So I worked in the divorce industry in terms of collaborative practice where as a family professional and a therapist, I actually helped parents kind of draft the parenting plan and communicate better so that their great co parents. And then I realized that's pretty negative and that's really heavy. Why not work on the preventative part of it and help people have healthy relationships and their marriages. So I did a lot of work or courses on that. I think you and I discussed a little bit about attachment theory and how that's important and we can touch on that today as well. But I find that our core relationship, right? Our partnership, our romantic relationship or marriage is those really if they're not healthy, that's going to affect everything in our lives, our physical health or business decisions, our ability to maintain other relationships. So it's so important to make sure that we have healthy and I don't say happy because happiness is relative right? If we didn't have your coffee in the morning, you may not be happy. But how do you have a healthy relationship because there's always going to be challenges. So that's kind of like the work that I really enjoy doing now because it is preventative and it's a lot more positive and I've seen the journey that couples in particular or even families. So parent child dynamic, when you give them the skills and the tools to be able to communicate, the fruits of that are amazing. So very, very important to have a healthy relationship on the base and the root and uh, and then everything else kind of flourishes with. You know, if you can create that dynamic, which everyone can, it's work though, it's work. Yeah, it requires effort. I'm making notes here as you're talking because I have, I have some questions for you. Um but first, what kind of couples or families do you work with that you find, is there a common theme, or is it kind of all around all over the spectrum? I would say all over the spectrum? So there's kind of like pockets of um of clients that I have. So, you know, there's the wealthier clients who have accumulated wealth um, generationally, and then there's the ones who have immigrants that have come here and done really well in business and they're trying to figure stuff out. So all of a sudden there accumulated all this wealth and it's not about the money management, you can hire people for that. Um but it's really about how do you manage our relationship to money. So if you are a spender and lets your partner is a favor, you're gonna clash. And that often they're like magnets, right? So um there's a lot of dynamics at play when it comes to um business relationships, the money, all of those things. So I have clients also who are just, you know, regular people that are coming and trying to figure out whether they should get divorced, whether they should stay in the relationship. And I say to everybody before you go ever go down that path, you're still gonna have to communicate if your parents. So let's just work on the communication piece, let's see where that goes and then make a decision, right? So clients from all over, but very different dynamics in terms of how you would work with those clients, right? Yeah, very interesting. And you touched on something there. My first, I guess big question for you is you talked about the skills aspect of relationships um and the importance of that I'm speaking from personal experience, because I realized that when my first relationship failed and I went on this journey to figure out why the heck did it go the way it went? Like I was just heartbroken, broken and I realized that I just didn't have the skills, like I just was not equipped to be able to have the proper conversations the right mindset to be able to deal with, you can say a difference in opinions. Um, and different value systems, all these things. So for the average, I'm gonna say guys out there, there's a lot of women that listen to our show, but majority are men, what would you say to them if they say I've heard this before? You know, it shouldn't be that much work. It should just be natural. Mm. Well the first thing is nobody teaches us, right? Where do we learn our relationship skills? It's from our parents and often they're not healthy because no one taught them so communication skills and I wish they would teach this in schools, you know, to young people. So that because whether it's your, your marriage or you still have to hone relationships with your, your workplace, your teammates, your colleagues, your pharmacist, like you're always honing relationships and if you don't have tools, if you don't have the skills, they may not go so well. Right? So where do we learn it from? Usually our parents, I would say 90% of the people say not so healthy, right? We don't often see, we might see our parents argue or ignore each other, but they don't often show us how to resolve the conflict. Right? So conflict resolution skills are really, really important and um, therapy, you know, we often learn those, you could read books, there's lots of Youtube videos, but people don't really take the time because they think you're right, it should be easy if I, if I'm with someone, it's easy. The thing is, it's actually simple in the kitchen skills are simple, but they're not easy, right? Yeah. So it's practice practice practice practice once. You know, the tools, right? Yeah. And I think that's important for the listeners out there because, and I'm speaking from experience again, is there's a couple of moments in our relationship with my wife where I was just like, I don't know if I can go, you know, continue with this and she was thinking the same thing, but back in my mind, I'm like, how much is this gonna cost me? You know what? Like, what the heck? Because, You know, I've been working my butt off and then also the kids and like, you know, courts still favor the mother's still, it's not, it hasn't become quite equal from my perspective. You know, I think it's getting better and maybe you can talk about that too because yeah, I think that's a work. Yeah. With the court system, I would say in the past 10 years it's shifted a lot because a lot of fathers groups, men groups are like, wait a minute, like, where we're parents too. So to be honest, the trend now is 50 50. So people have this view like, oh my God, because research has shown that Children who have a healthy relationship with both parents actually fare better. They're healthier. They have better mental health. So researchers, So judges will actually, unless there's a really big reason why that can happen. It could be shift work Or you know, there's an anti situation, you know, because one of the partners is busy with the business, they don't have time to pick up the kids, whatever. So they hire a nanny will, a judge may say, well, if mom's available and she's a mom, it's better for the kids to spend that time with mom when dad's not around. Right? So there's certain circumstances where they may not be the case, but the trend is definitely shared 5050. Um, right now. So it's it's getting much better. Much, much better. But for for men in particular, think about how men are raised, right? Uh, the only emotion that's safe might be anger, right? Uh, you know, real men don't cry. Real men don't get emotional. They don't uh, they're not soft there. Especially when you're dealing in the business world. You have to be tough. You have to have thick skin and you come home, you can't have their persona with your wife. It's not gonna work, right? Yeah. There's some level of vulnerability that has to happen in the business world. You cannot be both honorable, right? It's gonna cost you if you are. So, there's that disconnect where you're coming home and you have to take that hat off. That's really hard to do, right? So it's learning, right? It's learning like wait a minute, what role am I am right now? I'm in a husband role. I'm in a partner role. What does that look like? Can I be more vulnerable? Can I spend more quality time with my partner? So how we're conditioned, how we're raised, especially for men and, and culturally as well, depending like where you come from. Um it's much more difficult because it's not widely accepted to be emotional. Let's say for instance, you're emotionally vulnerable. Would you agree you work with a lot of men? Do you find that? Yeah. Yeah, I would say I totally agree. A lot of guys aren't in tune with their emotions from the perspective of yeah, they might know what their feeling that they just don't understand how to deal with them or what's appropriate, especially in today's age where there's so much confusion about being a man. Um and I can say just from personal experience, my dad was a very emotional man. Um he's very masculine but very emotional as well and he kind of taught me that it was okay to cry. It was okay to be vulnerable. That was part of being a man. So I think I had the unique benefit of that, but I know a lot of guys that we work with haven't had that. Um Yeah, yeah. It is very rare and that's one of the big aspects that we work on when we do work with men is on the emotional side. It's one of the core pieces and and we don't do the therapy aspect, because that's not something we're equipped to do, but we do use the emotional aspect to help them perform better to have more fulfilling lives from that perspective. Um when it comes to relationship, you you talked about this um from the perspective of men, what I'm also seeing is there's been a shift as well where a lot of women now are focused on their careers and are coming home and using that same kind of attitude in their relationships. Are you seeing that as well? And if you are, what's your advice because there might be guys and men or women thinking, you know, is this normal? Is this natural? Is this healthy? Um, and how to deal with that? Well, I'm gonna think that in the hidden history and the history of humankind, this is the first time our generation in particular where women have been financially independent. That's never happened before. Never happened before. Right. Even think back to the previous generation, our parents generation, we had to have two incomes, right to to make it work. But it was still the world, we're very much defined and the type of work where men were getting paid much more than women do is very different. So they still they were very reliant on the, on the marriage or the relationship for survival right now? This is a completely interesting, the dynamic is so interesting and this is why there's a higher rate of divorce and there's a lot of confusion rolls, what's mass dealing with feminine. So we talk more about masculine and feminine energy as opposed to a man. So I need to be like this around a woman and I need to be like this. Um, it's connecting to both of those energies. So this is a union dynamic that we've never had before. So it's very confusing for women too, because in the business world we have to kind of be like, men, right? We can't be vulnerable because how are we gonna be perceived as she as a woman? Like she's emotional as she on her period, like, right? So let's be honest, Right? And so it's, it's, yeah, you're absolutely right. Even women coming home, it's taking off that hat and going, okay, I can be vulnerable now. Right? And remember it's a little bit more acceptable for women to be vulnerable. So it might be an easier switch than for men to do that, right? And what you talked about earlier, I think is very important. So I'm a huge advocate for relationships. People staying together if they're happy, right? Um, and if they're healthy and I'm, for me personally, it's about passion as well. Like I'm a very passionate person in my life with everything that I do from business to all my relationships. And if there's no passionate relationship, I won't be in it. Like, it's just, it's draining for me. Um So I support relationships. I always tell people to say, you know what? Try to figure it out because there probably is a path from your perspective. What do you think the success factors are when it comes to people that are basically at the end saying I'm done with it to saying, wow, our relationship has totally, totally turned around. We're not only happy. We're we're doing way better than we were doing before. Mm Hmm. I'm gonna say simply everybody wants to feel heard and everybody wants to feel validated. And we don't often do that. Marriage is cyclical relationships are cyclical. We have good times. We have bad times. Really bad times. That's what you do in those really bad times. Right? So that cycle can be on a daily basis. Or that could be every 10 years. Or that could be right. So what do we do when it's really bad? Do we reconnect? Pick ourselves up and regroup and go, okay, wait a minute. This isn't working. What do we need to do? And everything in relationships are about negotiation. Which in the business world is a skill that everyone has. You have to what we don't learn is how to do that in a maybe kind compassionate way in our relationships. So how do you negotiate? I'm very solu focused, especially when with couples. Um So we talk about like how does that person feel when you talk like that or when you say that or when you do that, How do you think they feel? And that's about developing compassion and empathy for the career partner. But we also want to be able to understand that they want to be heard and they want to be validated, but you don't have to agree, you don't have to agree with them. But you can say I see where you're coming from. So it's learning those comments, those those skills of being able to support your partner with with being able to have a different opinion, right? And that's a very it requires a lot of fine tuning and practice for sure. So that really helps with success, especially when things are at the breaking point, it's like wait a minute. The real reason people come or feel feel really hurt. It's because they don't feel validated, they don't feel hurt. Do you agree? Right? Like that's what it comes down to. Yeah, I think I agree with that because I see a lot of men saying k yeah, she doesn't understand. Um and then the women are saying the same thing. So I I think that's a completely valid perspective. So I'm going to shift gears here a little bit and ask about because we're talking about spouses. What about other relationships, especially in business, you might be in a sibling relationship, you might be in a parent child relationship or you know when I say child, I say, you know, grown adult child or I don't know what the technical term is for that? Um, but what do you see there, especially in business and how that impacts people's relationships? Well, I've seen personally with some clients, some interesting dynamics. So, um, where let's say the eldest child, usually it's a son, not always is going to be the successor of the business. So they're groomed from a very young age to be the successor of the business and they're accepting of that. But then you see the opposite where you have a child that goes, no way, I don't want to be part of that business. I want to be a musician, right? Like I like playing the guitar, I'm gonna play the guitar and be a rock star. Um, and then there's so much conflict because wait a minute who's gonna continue this, this business that we've built, we've spent so much time and energy and sacrifice to build this business. So the conflict that comes with the parent or parents who have the business and their adult Children is also very unique. So being able to resolve that are their wounds from the past. So an example might be the parents weren't available when the Children were young, they were too busy trying to build this business, which takes a lot of time and effort, Right? It's, it's not something that there's a lot of sacrifices that need to be made. So sometimes there's a lot of resentment around that, right? So how do we kind of do some family counseling and work together on parents understanding? Um, you know, how their absence affected their Children and how communication is really important. Sometimes it's just, you know, encouraging their Children, you know, culturally speaking, sometimes depending where you're coming from, parents are very hard on their Children. It's all about academics and if you don't do well, It's like, I know with my dad, I got 97%, he was like, where's the other 3% happened, it wasn't about right. So then Children don't feel validated, right? So again, it's all about being validated and heard. So being able to learn those skills to is important. Um, and for adult Children, it's learning how to re parent ourselves because sometimes their parents can't, and they won't, they don't have the skill. So how do we work through that? And that's where counseling or therapy is really helpful to be able to learn how to self soothe and how to validate ourselves. And that's a skill in itself as well. Very, very helpful to be a successful business person because if you don't feel validated inside, you're not going to make good business decisions, right? Yeah. So I'd like to get into that a little bit deeper because I see that very often, um, where you said something very important before you said, and this is the way I take a look at it. my parents didn't necessarily have the skills, I knew my, I know my parents loved me more than anything. Um, but I don't blame them for any of the stuff that I've grown up with because they just didn't have the skills, they didn't didn't have access to the information, right? They did not have access to the support groups, um, that are available today. So they just, they did the best they could with what they have. And so what I see a lot of people doing these days is blaming their parents for example, right? And I do believe that inside they understand that their parents did their best, but they're still this blaming mechanism and there's grown people, grown men in their 30 forties, fifties that still have a grudge against their parents, whether it's consciously or unconsciously, what's your recommendation to them when it comes to holding on to graduate, holding onto some kind of belief about their parents? Well, the truth is, we're all gonna screw up our kids and our kids, their kids because we're all flawed and we're all human. So you're absolutely correct. Our parents did the best they could with what they had and a lot of times they didn't have the resources, right that we have and even, um, your clients who are men, um, I don't know how many of them are accessing therapy or doing self help things as well. So even if you have the resources, it's a choice. Growth is a choice, right? We can stay stagnant and be like, I'm fine the way I am and I'm just gonna that's just who I am or you can choose to grow. So I think it first comes to a personal decision of do I do I want to live like this, you know, what do I I want to do to make this better. So having that ability to choose to have growth and and do better. So it's not about blaming our parents at all, but if we can accept the fact that our parents did what they could with what they had, it's really about, well I'm responsible for my own feelings. I'll give you an example if you have two brothers who are raised by alcoholic parents, ones like, well mom's an alcoholic dads and alcohol Ecologist being alcoholic because that's what I know, right? That's familiar to me and the other brother says, no way, I'm never gonna do that to my family. I don't want to drink. I see the impact of it. So they come from the same place, from the same environment, but yet there's this element of choice of how they choose to live their life, right? So I think that's a huge piece to understand in terms of our own personalities and how much choice makes. So we it's not about our parents because like I said, our our parents mo most of the time, not always do the best that they can write, especially when that is the first generation, that is building the business right there. Second or third generation, it might be a bit easier because they might have access to resources. But if it's the first generation that's building it, there's a lot of challenges there, right? Yeah. I really like what you said there, because that is very important. That's one of the things that we take a look at both from a business perspective and a personal perspective when we work with men is everything is a choice every moment we are making decisions and and that's based on the choices and options that we create. Not necessarily the ones that we think are available because there's a lot of options are available that we just haven't thought about. But for the people that you work with, how do you get them to be open to the idea that it's a choice? Because some people don't believe it's a choice. They believe that, you know, they're stuck in this position because of external factors. How do you get them to open up and see that they have an opportunity to make a choice here? Well, the good news is that people men in particular who are coming to see me have already made a choice. They made the choice to not live the way that they're living, right? They're not happy. There's something that's not working. So they're there to learn. And so there's many different tools or dynamics or modalities depending on what their needs are. So I do a lot of inner child work, right? Where again, we're re parenting ourselves. It's a, it's kind of an interesting concept. You have to believe in it because it's two different energies sometimes when we behave in certain ways, like when you go to your core, your family of origin. So if you're like two brothers or whatever, you notice you're gonna behave a lot differently with your brother. When you're at home, then you would, it's a different energy when you're in the business world and you're having a meeting, right? So you're in your inner child, right? When you're, when you're with your siblings, your parents and you can be 50 years old and your mom could be like, you know, where a sweater, it's cold outside, you're like, mom, I don't want to wear a sweater and you're 50. You know, my kids look at me sometimes when I'm with my brother and they're like, how old are you guys? Because we sit in our inner child. So doing some work around connecting with with your inner child is really important. You know, there's journaling, there's, you know, a lot of it's self awareness in terms of why do I have these patterns? Why do I behave this way, where does it come from? And going back into your family dynamics, Right, Well, my dad was very closed off and so I'm really closed off. Like I can't open up. We talked a little bit about attachment theory as babies are primary caregivers. If they were attentive to us or not, we could do a whole podcast on this. So there's three kinds of attachment. There is avoiding, there's anxious and then there's secure people. And depending on what kind of attachment we connect to, we're gonna attract certain types of people and our communication is gonna be very different. So an anxious person is always like, I'm so scared they're gonna abandon me and an avoidant persons apart even abandoned. So like I don't really need anybody and guess what? They're magnets, right? And then good luck trying to communicate unless they both realize or recognize what their attachment salads and work towards being secure. It often doesn't work, right? So there's so many modalities when clients come to me men in particular that we would work with depending on what their goals are. Okay. Yeah. So thanks for pointing that out. Because if someone is going to see you or someone is seeking information, it seems like they've already made a decision that they want to change that they've made a choice to say, okay, I want something different. So thanks for pointing that out because I think that's very important. Not always women can sometimes be like either you go to counseling or it's over become And then, you know, creating a safe, comfortable space for them because therapy is not that scary counseling isn't, it's about really the connection with the therapist. So if you feel comfortable with them, you're going to trust them and you know, and and then also teaching them how to communicate like I centered communication folks on how you feel and what you would like rather than blaming you you you you that's so little skills into like that as well. Yeah, I think a little, like you said, there's skills involved in there and just picking up those skills, if even if it doesn't save your relationship, at least you can be a little bit more skilled in yourself and dealing with your own communication with yourself, your own emotional capacity or intelligence. Um and who knows, you might be happier as a person because yeah, I think that's important. I think a lot of people say, well I'm going I'm going because you know, I I don't want to lose half my wealth or I don't want to lose my kids and and whatever the reason is, but there's a selfish reason for this as well, right? Which is do you want to live a healthier and happier lifestyle? Because if people split and there's no resolution, then a lot of people hang on to that. There's a lot of what ifs Oh yeah, and people think I'm getting divorced, I don't have to deal with that person actually, if you have kids you're gonna deal with the worst part of that person, so learn those skills regardless, right? I'm always like even if you still have to co parent, right? So you're gonna have to communicate. You want to communicate effectively. And those skills are applied in the business world, they're applied to, you know, the person we speak to at the grocery store if we're not using healthier communication tools. So if we're only lashing out in anger when we talk about our emotions, doesn't matter what relationship it is. You're not gonna be happy because it's not going to go, well yeah that's that again is very important. I'm working with a couple right now where they were in a relationship, they weren't married but they were boyfriend girlfriend for a while. So you can say they were significant others and legal legally. Um it's a spouse. Um But what ended up happening was they just didn't work and now their businesses mess. They don't, they didn't have any legal agreements and now they can't even have proper conversations and it's just it's a it's a lose lose lose situation everywhere and she's not agreeing to even deal with a mediator. So they brought in a few mediators and she refuses to communicate, she's almost like a stone wall approach and the guys sitting there like what the heck do I do now? I don't want to go to a lawyer. But this is it seems like that's the only option he has. So I think when you rewind right, when you replay the the scenario and my wife and I were watching a movie about this the other day where A guy made a decision and lived out the next 10 years of his life and it wasn't the life you wanted. So you know, he made a wish to go back to that original point. I think a lot of us can do self reflection right now and say, Okay, maybe whatever stage a person is at with a relationship, it might be worth it to at least try. Absolutely. I mean think about if you build a business and you're married, whether your spouse's stays home or not, it's 50 50 like that's just Canadian family law. So in order to retain wealth and and happiness and health right? Because you don't want to be like I just want to stay in this marriage so I don't have to give her half right? Because you're not gonna be happy, it's gonna kill your soul and the business will will not be as successful as you'd like it to be. So I've seen it before where people get divorced and they evaluate the business and one partner has to pay the other person out, guess what they can't function that business breaks down, it's over. So in order to avoid that that whole scenario and not just for your own selfish reasons to maintain your wealth, but also if you are generally again, in a healthy relationship, everybody has challenges. Even if it's, if that one doesn't work out, likely the likelihood of you getting into another relationship there, you're gonna repeat the same patterns if you don't shift right? If you don't do, you're gonna attract the same person, just a different name, same dynamics until we figure out like, what's going on, Why do I keep doing that? Right? So, lots of work to be done? Yeah, no, it's good. It is important. I can again speak from personal experience that a lot of the stuff that I've, the challenges that I've gone through in our, in our relationship and marriage have made me a better person because I've contributed to them, and I always have this awakening and realization that I'm like, I can actually do this better and not necessarily just for my wife, but just for me. And so there's, I think what you're helping people do is just help them self reflect to be a better person, be a better individual. Do you ever get that stereotype when people come in and be like, when they hear psychotherapist, they're like, okay, this, you know, there's nothing wrong with me, Uh, you know, I don't have a mental disorder. Um, do you ever, is that stereotype still around? Or do you think has changed quite a bit. I think it's definitely changing because I do also work with first responders and, and policing. And, you know, very different from even buggers though. Now there's a lot more acceptance. A lot of clients coming in, uh, to deal with mental health. But yeah, sometimes at a party when you're like, well, what do you do? I'm a psychotherapist, everyone just goes silent. Like as if I'm going to like analyze them. Like, dude, I don't work on weekends, okay, It's not happening. And the truth is, we're human too, right. I'm still trying to figure out my relationships as well and learning so much. We're always trying to grow. Nobody's perfect. We are all flawed. Um, so we just have to figure out what is it that my patterns are that are not serving me my patterns of behavior and how can I shift that? And that's where therapy is really important. And I would say to two women who come in, like, my husband doesn't want to come in and I say it depends on the therapist will are different. But I know for me, I really come from more of a psycho education point of view. So again, teaching the skills. So I will go into the past of what happened because that obviously that's what brought the couple there, but I'm not gonna spend 10 sessions on it because we, you can't change it. What I'd rather do is use it as a learning point of now that you have these skills and tools and that situation happened if that happens again, what would you do differently? Because we don't want to go back there ever, It didn't work and that is I find really helpful for couples. They really appreciate that because going through the past over and over again is just bringing everything up. But if you're like, here's what happened, here's how I felt And then it's much more effective and cost efficient. You're not gonna go, you know, 50 sessions talking about the past, we want to move forward, what skills do we need to make this work? Right. That's my approach anyways so when it comes to your approach, what does it typically look like for an individual or couples? How often do you do you meet them on zoom? How does that work with you and your and your and your clients? Um now it's pretty much online. Um some therapists are going back like you know in person a little bit but again it's such a weird world now but I think I find clients really like being, having the accessibility, I can work with anyone in Ontario, Some clients in Ottawa and Micro Falls. Um so that's it's made it more accessible for people, but in terms of how often usually the beginning people are coming because there's a crisis, not always, but sometimes so weekly at the beginning and then it might be bi weekly, then monthly, then it's just check ins it really is highly dependent on what the needs of the clients are. So an example might be I just want to deal with the issue at hand and having um an issue with my teenage son, how do I communicate with them? So we just work on that. But if someone comes to me and says I really we want to work on my patterns of behavior, I keep attracting this or in business, I keep getting the same situation come up, then we go into your family dynamics and we go into patterns and we go into your past and we go into your trauma and that is a much more intense and longer process. So I always talk about what are your goals for therapy, what would you like to get out of it? And then we plan together in terms of what treatment might look like, right? And it's very it's I make it fun too. It's not always this emotional, you know, cathartic release, It is actually learning, it's you know, laughing at ourselves sometimes it's lighter some days and heavy other days, it's not people get scared like, oh my God, therapy I'm broken or it's really about learning, right? And if you look at it from that perspective, it's it's healthier, right? No one's gonna fix you, I can't fix you. I give you the tools but I can't do it. I wish. Yeah, Yeah, only it was that easy. So for for the business minded individuals out there, there's an old saying right, learning is earning because the more you learn, the more you earn and I think that goes for relationships as well. I see a lot of people focusing on business skills and technical skills from that perspective, but the people side I would say is even more important, not only from yeah, making more money, but you're just you're having a healthier and happier lifestyle. I think that's so important. But even in business decisions, if you're in a meeting or you have a new client, if you don't know how to speak to them, it's all about developing relationships, right? Every business is about honing and developing relationships, whether it's your supplier or a client, you're always in relationship. So the better skills you have, the more successful your business is going to be regardless, Right? So, I think you and I were talking about like, imagine having an argument with your spouse the night before and you have a huge business meeting coming up where there's gonna be millions of dollars at stake. How is that going to affect your ability or your clarity, right? So if you have a happy home, you're gonna have a happy business. Um in my view, I can I can second that because again, I know that there's there was a point in time and period in my relationship with my wife that we were just not doing well, we were on the verge of breakup and I made the dumbest financial and business decisions and it cost me a lot. And I years later I looked back and I was just like, it wasn't my technical skill, it wasn't that I was stupid, I didn't know what I was doing, I just wasn't in the right mindset, I just didn't have enough energy to really think of the options and the choices that I had and actually play them out properly. Um and that was one of the things that actually I created this rule for myself after that, that after seven p.m. I don't make any major decisions for business. I just don't Yeah, and it's just because I just don't have that same level of energy to have that mental mindset to be able to make proper decisions, especially if it's a big decision, but I had to learn the hard way. So guys, if you wanna, if you want to make more money yeah, make sure you have a better lifestyle at home, better relationship at home. I think that's very important for so many. Where can for the people out there that are listening to this podcast, where can people find you, where can people get ahold of you um when it comes to the work that you do And I'm I'm very firmly saying this for the individual individuals out there listening. If you are having a challenge, I would highly recommend you reach out to many because not only will she be able to help you with the skills um for your relationship, but it's important again, like we said from a business perspective, right, make sure your home is set up properly because your business is gonna struggle. If it isn't so many, where can people go, where can people find you? Um Well, my website is www dot guiding journeys with an S dot C. A. They can just google my name many Sharma, but all my information is on my website. Um My phone number is 4168894089. That's my business member. You can leave a message or even text me on that. But yeah, just google my name. I'm sure it'll come up somehow and if if you can on the podcast, maybe put my information somewhere. But I think, I think people who do the internal work they get, you know, the fruits externally as well. Right? That's just always the case. Right, highly successful people didn't get there by chance. Yeah, I completely agree. So thank you for that. Just dropped a ton of wisdom bombs here for our audience. I appreciate that. Um And thank you, I know we're gonna have you on again because there's so many other hot topics that I think you can help our audience with. Absolutely, absolutely, thank you so much. I had a great time. I love talking about this. Yeah, my pleasure. So, for those of you out there listening. Thank you again for supporting our podcast. Please subscribe and share until next time. Take care.